Derek Chauvin Trial/George Floyd/Minneapolis

Nas

Well-known member
Hes going to jail, where he deserves to be.

Will be interesting to see what the city does and a riot occurs at the end of the trial regardless of the outcome. They one upped Baltimore in letting people destroy anything they wanted.
 

hmt5000

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Founder
Hes going to jail, where he deserves to be.

Will be interesting to see what the city does and a riot occurs at the end of the trial regardless of the outcome. They one upped Baltimore in letting people destroy anything they wanted.
Once they post the pictures of the Minnie police manual its going to be real hard to convict him of anything that will make people happy.
 

Nas

Well-known member
Once they post the pictures of the Minnie police manual its going to be real hard to convict him of anything that will make people happy.
What's in the directives?

My concern isnt for appeasing anyone. My problem is with four guys standing around not controlling the guy, with one doing all of it, and because of that doing to much. Everyone who has had any training knows
1 you dont leave someone on their stomach cuffed like that. It does lead to restricted breathing
2 you dont leave your weight on them that high up and especially for that long.

Use of force continuum. Goes up and down. He is cuffed and not actively resisting. He did too much and the guy died. They wont get the murder for death while commiting a felony, but they will get wreckless homicide or manslaughter.
 

hmt5000

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What's in the directives?

My concern isnt for appeasing anyone. My problem is with four guys standing around not controlling the guy, with one doing all of it, and because of that doing to much. Everyone who has had any training knows
1 you dont leave someone on their stomach cuffed like that. It does lead to restricted breathing
2 you dont leave your weight on them that high up and especially for that long.

Use of force continuum. Goes up and down. He is cuffed and not actively resisting. He did too much and the guy died. They wont get the murder for death while commiting a felony, but they will get wreckless homicide or manslaughter.
Have you seen that pd's directives on excited delirium? He ain't getting any kind of murder. Involuntary Manslaughter is probably the only thing they can realistically get.
 

hmt5000

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Founder
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CDDP

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Any members of law enforcement on this board? If so can someone comment on how Derek Chauvin detained Floyd? The video doesn't look good but is the way he was detained match the way law enforcement is trained to do so?
 

hmt5000

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Founder
Any members of law enforcement on this board? If so can someone comment on how Derek Chauvin detained Floyd? The video doesn't look good but is the way he was detained match the way law enforcement is trained to do so?
It's been scrubbed from the internet but there is a generic image of how to detain someone with ED. The photo I posted above and Chauvin both did exactly what the Minn book says to do. They will show that book in court and it's going to be hard to say he wasn't doing as he was trained.
 

CDDP

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Founder
It's been scrubbed from the internet but there is a generic image of how to detain someone with ED. The photo I posted above and Chauvin both did exactly what the Minn book says to do. They will show that book in court and it's going to be hard to say he wasn't doing as he was trained.
If he was trained to do that way and Floyd had fatal levels of fentanyl in his system then Chauvin will walk. Holy shit the rioting in Minny will be epic.
 

Nas

Well-known member
I'm LEO. The second point on that slide is what is going to get him convicted. He didnt put him in the recovery position to alleviate asphyxia. He kept him in the initial position that they warn about on the first point for entirely too long.

I take the side of the police on most issues because you cant judge what someone perceives as a threat. Also, you dont know what kind of training other departments have. But, given that slide, which I have seen before, he was wrong.

Fwiw I dont know any officers that think this guy should be let off. He did wrong and he did unfixable damage to the profession.

My original point was there were other officers there doing nothing. Albeit some were very very new and he was a coach. He should have directed them to hold Floyd in the recovery position. More officers put him on his side in the recovery position means less force used.
 

Nas

Well-known member
The picture is the initial detainment. Legs crossed folded up to butt, head held on the ground. They are explaining what to do after that.
 

hmt5000

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Founder
The picture is the initial detainment. Legs crossed folded up to butt, head held on the ground. They are explaining what to do after that.
But he was still exhibiting the same type of behavior that he had been doing 15 minutes before that. Everyone is only looking at the end of the tape but the defense is going to play the whole tape and show the book detailing how to deal with drugged out people experiencing excited delirium. I think hes a dirtbag for not having a heart at the last couple of minutes but the problem is with training and tactics and whether or not excited delirium is even a real thing.

Hell, the only thing that came out of this is that now chokes are banned. That is the exact opposite of what needed to be done but we are only worried about optics.
 

America 1st

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But he was still exhibiting the same type of behavior that he had been doing 15 minutes before that. Everyone is only looking at the end of the tape but the defense is going to play the whole tape and show the book detailing how to deal with drugged out people experiencing excited delirium. I think hes a dirtbag for not having a heart at the last couple of minutes but the problem is with training and tactics and whether or not excited delirium is even a real thing.

Hell, the only thing that came out of this is that now chokes are banned. That is the exact opposite of what needed to be done but we are only worried about optics.
This.

He should walk based on the evidence and tape.
 

Nas

Well-known member
But he was still exhibiting the same type of behavior that he had been doing 15 minutes before that. Everyone is only looking at the end of the tape but the defense is going to play the whole tape and show the book detailing how to deal with drugged out people experiencing excited delirium. I think hes a dirtbag for not having a heart at the last couple of minutes but the problem is with training and tactics and whether or not excited delirium is even a real thing.

Hell, the only thing that came out of this is that now chokes are banned. That is the exact opposite of what needed to be done but we are only worried about optics.
If the book shows the picture you posted above he is going to jail. He was handcuffed, he needed to go on is side. Ive dealt with coked out monsters and excited delirium people. Nothing they show that guy doing is going to excuse one guy holding him in a position they specifically tell you not to for that long and him dying.

I wish it werent the case. I wish it was different, but its not. He knew better and there were many other east options. He deserves what he gets.
 

America 1st

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The problem is people continue to act like it's about Chauvin when really it's all about the criminal.

The criminal chose to do drugs.

The criminal chose to resist arrest.

The criminal got what he had coming.

Life isn't fair. He should have considered the ramifications of his actions before he got high then again before resisting arrest.
 

hmt5000

Well-known member
Founder
If the book shows the picture you posted above he is going to jail. He was handcuffed, he needed to go on is side. Ive dealt with coked out monsters and excited delirium people. Nothing they show that guy doing is going to excuse one guy holding him in a position they specifically tell you not to for that long and him dying.

I wish it werent the case. I wish it was different, but its not. He knew better and there were many other east options. He deserves what he gets.
Hes going to jail but it won't be for murder. If the page I saw months ago was accurate, then that dept litter ali told its officers to keep people in the "knee on the neck" position until the subject stops resisting or flailing, or whatever the word they used was.

There is a reason that the PD and city cleared out all their online police policy records. The problem is deeper than one bad cop. Police have set up rules that put the people in an inferior standing than police. That leads to people like chauvin being able to just sit there and listen to that and not move even after dude quit breathing.
 

MaizeBlaze

I’m just here so I won’t get fined.
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The problem is people continue to act like it's about Chauvin when really it's all about the criminal.

The criminal chose to do drugs.

The criminal chose to resist arrest.

The criminal got what he had coming.

Life isn't fair. He should have considered the ramifications of his actions before he got high then again before resisting arrest.
No. Just no. That's not how it works, my friend. The fight stopped the second the cuffs were applied. There are 4 officers on scene and they are within feet of a patrol car. Load him up and get him out of there. There is zero, and I mean zero, justification for kneeling on a prone prisoner's neck for 9 minutes.
 

America 1st

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No. Just no. That's not how it works, my friend. The fight stopped the second the cuffs were applied. There are 4 officers on scene and they are within feet of a patrol car. Load him up and get him out of there. There is zero, and I mean zero, justification for kneeling on a prone prisoner's neck for 9 minutes.
Agree to disagree.
 

MaizeBlaze

I’m just here so I won’t get fined.
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Agree to disagree.
all good. Just saying that I’ve been on hundreds of arrest scenes and have never witnessed anything like that, especially when a crowd is starting to form. He’s cuffed and the numbers favor the good guys. Get him to the precinct for processing ASAP.

If there is video out there that suggests otherwise, I haven’t seen it.
 

America 1st

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all good. Just saying that I’ve been on hundreds of arrest scenes and have never witnessed anything like that, especially when a crowd is starting to form. He’s cuffed and the numbers favor the good guys. Get him to the precinct for processing ASAP.

If there is video out there that suggests otherwise, I haven’t seen it.
I'm picking up what yore laying down.

I stand by my point.
 

PowerMEGA

Well-known member
Founder
I doubt the prosecutors get a conviction for 2nd degree murder, which is what I believe they are charging him with. I could see some kind of negligent homicide conviction, like manslaughter, but not murder.

I would not be surprised if the prosecutors decided to over-charge in this case because they actually want an acquittal, and the mayhem that would ensue from that.
 

BTAvenger

Well-known member
I’m a retired cop and it angers me to see the media portrayal’s in this case. So much occurred prior to the eight minutes or whatever it was of Floyd being kneeled upon. I’m guessing that Chauvin was old school and likely was a little heavy handed in general when dealing with resisting criminals but when you are in that situation surrounded by countless “citizens” who are all yelling and injecting themselves into the situation time flies like nothing you can ever imagine. Your head is on a swivel because you are constantly looking out for your own safety while in the process holding down a resisting arrestee. The concept of time is not even a remote part of the equation when you are dealing with that.
 

MaizeBlaze

I’m just here so I won’t get fined.
Founder
I’m a retired cop and it angers me to see the media portrayal’s in this case. So much occurred prior to the eight minutes or whatever it was of Floyd being kneeled upon. I’m guessing that Chauvin was old school and likely was a little heavy handed in general when dealing with resisting criminals but when you are in that situation surrounded by countless “citizens” who are all yelling and injecting themselves into the situation time flies like nothing you can ever imagine. Your head is on a swivel because you are constantly looking out for your own safety while in the process holding down a resisting arrestee. The concept of time is not even a remote part of the equation when you are dealing with that.
Current LEO with 23 years on the job. 22 on the east side of Detroit.

With all due respect brother, the crowd that is forming is all the more reason to get the fuck out of there ASAP.

Just to clarify, I’m not saying Chauvin will be convicted, because I’m having serious doubts that will happen due to the charges. But he certainly has no business in our profession, and definitely belongs in jail.
 

America 1st

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As society we either need to get back to wild west style justice or begin to train officers that their life isn't at risk in every situation (lol) and that they are there to support the community by trying to not make arrests wherever possible.

Society and culture are mostly to blame for this sad state of affairs.

Aa someone who was illegally detained and charged by undercover ATF (charges thrown out in court) I promise you that if you don't resist arrest things work out much better for everyone involved.

People resisting arrest are liter Ali on par with murders and child abusers.
 

America 1st

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College days. Agent was supplementing local effort.

Got the charges thrown because I was able to prove the arresting officer fudged part of the arrest report so that he could justify arresting me before identifying me properly (illegal in Ohio for an undercover).

TLDR: You can't arrest someone in Ohio because they look suspicious.
 
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